docs(MADR): resource identifier format #12756

lobkovilya · 2025-02-05T10:16:09Z

Motivation

The goal is to improve Inspect API and introduce an identifier as part of the URL path, i.e :5681/_rules/<identifier>. See the discussion

Better to review the rendered version as it contains tables.

Fix #12044

Signed-off-by: Ilya Lobkov <[email protected]>

github-actions · 2025-02-05T10:24:36Z

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docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

Signed-off-by: Ilya Lobkov <[email protected]>

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

Signed-off-by: Ilya Lobkov <[email protected]>

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

lahabana · 2025-02-12T11:30:43Z

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

+
+#### [Issue #12093](https://github.com/kumahq/kuma/issues/12093): xds configs, outbound listeners should use the clustername instead of an IP/port combo
+
+We name outbounds like `outbound:10.43.205.116:6379` where IP address doesn't give any useful information.


Even more when there are multiple IPs right?

Co-authored-by: Charly Molter <[email protected]> Signed-off-by: Ilya Lobkov <[email protected]>

lahabana

Great stuff

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

Signed-off-by: Ilya Lobkov <[email protected]>

…o docs/madr-70

Signed-off-by: Ilya Lobkov <[email protected]>

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

lahabana · 2025-02-17T08:53:39Z

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

+| Inbound Cluster   | `localhost:<port>`                                                                                                                                                                                      | Dataplane (with sectionName to select port)    |
+| Outbound Cluster  | legacy clusters - `<kuma.io/service>-hash(dst.tags)`<br>legacy clusters cross-mesh - `<kuma.io/service>-hash(dst.tags)_<mesh>`<br>new clusters - `<mesh>_<name>_<namespace>_<zone>_<short-name>_<port>` | Mesh*Service (with sectionName to select port) |
+| Route             | Routes are set on Listener on VirtualHost.<br>On inbound - `inbound:<kuma.io/service>`<br>On outbound - `<hash_sha256([]Match{...})>`                                                                   | Correlates with a set of MeshHTTPRoutes        |
+| Secret            | `name       = <category>:<scope>:<identifier>`<br>`category   = "mesh_ca" \| "identity_cert"`<br>`scope      = "secret"`<br>`identifier = "all" \| <mesh_name>`                                         | TODO                                           |


That'd be the kri no?

It turned out to be less straightforward with Secrets. Only mesh_ca in builtin mode has a real secret resource in the store we could use for kri. In all other cases, secrets are either generated in memory (i.e. identity_cert), or obtained using DataSource (i.e. CA provided), or fetched from external places (i.e. Vault). As we don't have problems with secret naming at that moment and also naming requirements are not yet clear for secrets, I'd move them out of the scope of this MADR. I've added a section:

Secrets naming in Envoy

Renaming secrets in Envoy is out of the scope of this MADR. Only mesh_ca secret in builtin mode has a corresponding Secret resource in the store. In all other cases, secrets are either stored in memory, or obtained using DataSource or fetched from external systems, so it's not straightforward how to apply kri concept. Also, it's not clear what problems and limitations do we have when it comes to naming secrets in Envoy.

lahabana · 2025-02-17T08:56:32Z

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

+|-------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------|
+| Listener    | `<gateway-name>:<protocol>:<port>` where `gateway-name` is `MeshGatewayResource.Meta.Name`                                                                                                                                     | MeshGateway (with sectionName to select the listener) |
+| VirtualHost | `<hostname>`                                                                                                                                                                                                                   |                                                       |
+| Cluster     | `<kuma.io/service>-hash(merge(dpp.tags, gateway.tags, listener.tags))`                                                                                                                                                         | Pair of MeshGateway and Mesh*Service                  |


So what does this actually look like?

Not much we can do right now as we generate a unique cluster per MeshGateway listener. I looked a bit into this and I think we should be able to stop doing that. I've created an issue #13129 and referenced it in the MADR. Once we get rid of hash-suffixes in MeshGateway cluster names we can go with kri from Mesh*Service.

lahabana

This is good. I think the only gap for getting an approval are:

showing actual new names in your table once the whole migration is done
telling the future of stat_prefix/alt_stat_name

The rest are mostly small questions/nits

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

lahabana · 2025-02-17T09:03:11Z

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

+```
+envoy_cluster_upstream_cx_total{envoy_cluster_name="localhost_5000"} 0
+```
+so there is no reason to replace `:` with `_`.


In the past there were stuff in the metric name, I remember we even had some code to change things around. My is that this is the main reason no?

Also when not using prom format doesn't it actually use : as a separator see:

In the past there were stuff in the metric name, I remember we even had some code to change things around. My is that this is the main reason no?

Yeah maybe, but then it's still unclear, why don't they replace : in stat_prefix? IMO it's just odd that stat_prefix and alt_stat_name don't have consistent behavior.

Also when not using prom format doesn't it actually use : as a separator see:

Even though envoy uses : as a separator in /clusters endpoint, it still takes cluster.name, not cluster.alt_stat_name:

The cluster in the example named kuma:readiness

~~I guess it's more reason for not using stat_prefix and all_stat_name anymore no?~~
^ saw your note later

Should you ask Envoy slack? Maybe you can get an answer...

lahabana · 2025-02-17T09:07:21Z

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

+}
+```
+
+I can't find explanation why `alt_stat_name` and `stat_prefix` are treated differently by Envoy. 


A use case could be that stat_prefix and alt_stat_name parameters can be used to consolidate statistics from multiple similar entities under a single name.

For example, if you have separate IPv4 and IPv6 clusters named my-cluster:v4 and my-cluster:v6, you can use alt_stat_name: my-cluster for both clusters to aggregate their statistics under the common name my-cluster when exporting metrics. This allows you to track related entities as a unified group while maintaining distinct names for configuration purposes.

WDYT?

Ah no, I don't question why there are an actual name and stats name, I just don't understand why stat_prefix doesn't behave the same way as alt_stat_name.

Btw is there a specific reason for us to use state_prefix and alt_stat_name or will these become unecessary now that we have kri?

Seems unecessary from your note later

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

johncowen · 2025-02-17T15:21:47Z

I just had a thought/question which is maybe just for my understanding, but how come something like SPIFFE IDs aren't an option here? I think that even from my level of understanding, I guess the /'s etc in SPIFFE URIs are problematic for all the reasons why we've landed on a _? Are there more reasons?

lahabana · 2025-02-19T08:40:10Z

I just had a thought/question which is maybe just for my understanding, but how come something like SPIFFE IDs aren't an option here? I think that even from my level of understanding, I guess the /'s etc in SPIFFE URIs are problematic for all the reasons why we've landed on a _? Are there more reasons?

Spiffe Id only exist for Dataplane identity.

Co-authored-by: Charly Molter <[email protected]> Signed-off-by: Ilya Lobkov <[email protected]>

jijiechen · 2025-02-25T08:58:38Z

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

+```
+
+**Pros:**
+- Better handling of gaps; no need for `;;` when a value is not defined


This format is definitely more readable by human.

jijiechen · 2025-02-26T03:13:13Z

This MADR is so well authored.
I approve it with the preference of option 1 as it's more short and most usage scenarios are in intermediate software layers instead of by human.

lahabana · 2025-03-17T08:53:48Z

Should we cover this #12147 in the MADR?

Signed-off-by: Ilya Lobkov <[email protected]>

…o docs/madr-70 Signed-off-by: Ilya Lobkov <[email protected]> # Conflicts: # docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

Signed-off-by: Ilya Lobkov <[email protected]>

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

Icarus9913 · 2025-03-19T09:22:57Z

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

+| FilterChain | for external services - `<kuma.io/service>_<mesh>`                                                                                                              | MeshExternalService                                      | kri_meshexternalservice_mesh-1___es1                        |
+| Route       | for external services - `outbound:<kuma.io/service>`                                                                                                            | MeshExternalService                                      | kri_meshexternalservice_mesh-1___es1                        |


MeshExternalService resource has a namespace right? So kri_meshexternalservice_mesh-1___es1 is a typo ?

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

Icarus9913 · 2025-03-19T09:56:31Z

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

+`resource-type` is a lowercased singular resource type, i.e. `meshservice`, `meshtimeout`, etc. 
+We use this name in [kumactl](https://github.com/kumahq/kuma/blob/d7ec0a2b1ac19208fb7dd9726309e3cf8cdc5848/pkg/core/resources/apis/meshservice/api/v1alpha1/zz_generated.resource.go#L153).


just one open thought here, should we consider using the resource type short name? Like mtp for meshtrafficpermission

+1 for the shortName I think there's already code to make sure all short names are unique. I think the brievity will be welcomed

lahabana

Please add at the beginning this what's out of scope.

Because here you talk about a lot of things because we plan to use this in a lot of places but we don't clarify that the only thing we do here is to define the format.
We don't define how it's going to be rolled out to the Envoy config or what the http api looks like

lahabana · 2025-03-19T13:28:57Z

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

+
+#### URL path
+
+For example `:5681/path-prefix/<identifier>/path-suffix`. 


path-prefix is not compliant with our specs. So I'd clearly state we're defining the http API for retrieving by resource identifier is out of scope here.

Yeah, I'll add that it's out of scope, here it's just an example for clarity. Why isn't path-prefix compliant with our specs?

lahabana · 2025-03-19T13:36:19Z

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

+|             | Name                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               | Correlated Resources |
+|-------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------|
+| Cluster     | `meshpassthrough_<protocol>_<match-value>_<port>`<br>when `<port> == 0` Kuma sets port equal to `*`<br>`match-value = CIDR \| IP \| Domain`<br>`CIDR     = i.e. "192.0.2.0/24" or "2001:db8::/32"`<br>`IP       = i.e. "192.0.2.1", or 2001:db8::68", or ::ffff:192.0.2.1"`<br>`Domain   = <dns-name> \| *.<dns-name>`<br>`dns-name = ^([a-zA-Z0-9_]{1}[a-zA-Z0-9_-]{0,62}){1}(\.[a-zA-Z0-9_]{1}[a-zA-Z0-9_-]{0,62})*[\._]?$`<br>  | –                    |
+| FilterChain | when `<match-value> == <protocol>` -> `meshpassthrough_<protocol>_<port>`<br>when `<match-value> != <protocol>` -> `meshpassthrough_<protocol>_<match-value>_<port>`<br>when port is 0 we put `*`, i.e. `meshpassthrough_http_*`<br>`<match-value>` is defined above                                                                                                                                                               | –                    |


So was are the names in envoy here?

lahabana · 2025-03-19T13:37:37Z

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

+|------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------|
+| Listener         | `kuma:dns`<br>`kuma:envoy:admin`<br>`kuma:metrics:prometheus`<br>`_kuma:metrics:opentelemetry:<backendName>`                                                         | –                    |
+| VirtualHost      | listener's name                                                                                                                                                      | –                    |
+| Internal Cluster | `kuma:readiness`<br>`kuma:envoy:admin`<br>`kuma:metrics:hijacker`<br>`_kuma:metrics:opentelemetry:<backendName>`<br>`tracing:`<br>`access_log_sink`<br>`ads_cluster` | –                    |


Can we list the ones that will stay in the future and the ones we can get rid of once we deprecated old policies?
If there are we keep around, could we migrate them to new names?

lahabana · 2025-03-19T13:39:48Z

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

+}
+```
+
+I can't find explanation why `alt_stat_name` and `stat_prefix` are treated differently by Envoy. 


Btw is there a specific reason for us to use state_prefix and alt_stat_name or will these become unecessary now that we have kri?

Seems unecessary from your note later

lahabana · 2025-03-19T13:41:12Z

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

+```
+envoy_cluster_upstream_cx_total{envoy_cluster_name="localhost_5000"} 0
+```
+so there is no reason to replace `:` with `_`.


~~I guess it's more reason for not using stat_prefix and all_stat_name anymore no?~~
^ saw your note later

Should you ask Envoy slack? Maybe you can get an answer...

lahabana · 2025-03-19T13:46:25Z

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

+resource-identifier = *(ALPHA / DIGIT / "-" / "." / "_" / "~" / "!" / "$" / "&" / "'" / "(" / ")" / "*" / "+" / "," / ";" / "=" / "@")
+```
+
+_Note: if we'd like to use resource identifier in URL query the charset is significantly smaller:_


I think we should require this.

lahabana · 2025-03-19T13:51:18Z

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

+`resource-type` is a lowercased singular resource type, i.e. `meshservice`, `meshtimeout`, etc. 
+We use this name in [kumactl](https://github.com/kumahq/kuma/blob/d7ec0a2b1ac19208fb7dd9726309e3cf8cdc5848/pkg/core/resources/apis/meshservice/api/v1alpha1/zz_generated.resource.go#L153).


+1 for the shortName I think there's already code to make sure all short names are unique. I think the brievity will be welcomed

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

lahabana · 2025-03-19T13:57:25Z

docs/madr/decisions/070-resource-identifier.md

+There is an identifier format from Amazon called [ARN](https://docs.aws.amazon.com/IAM/latest/UserGuide/reference-arns.html). We can adopt a similar approach, but using `_`:
+
+```
+kri_<resource-type>_<mesh>_<zone>_<namespace>_<resource-name>_<section-name>


Could we have an optional suffix ? I already envision use cases where actually we can't sumup with a single kri even with a sectionName and we still need to append some hash at the end?

I'd argue strongly against the hashes if it came up but I'm sure it's gonna come up.

Another probably better option is to explicitly state that if needs for a suffix was required we will need to create a MADR. This enable us to leave this door open but clearly say it should never be required. From looking at the discussion in: #13129 clearly it seems that it'd be necessary

This reminded me we should probably treat sectionName as an optional suffix, because when it's missing, we don't want to have a trailing _, like

kri_meshservice_mesh-1_us-east-1_kuma-demo_mt1_

So maybe we can put sectionName after some delimiter, because strictly speaking sectionName is not a resource identifier, it's a reference inside the specific resource:

kri_<resource-type>_<mesh>_<zone>_<namespace>_<resource-name>&sectionName=httpport OR kri_<resource-type>_<mesh>_<zone>_<namespace>_<resource-name>&sn=httpport

and then like you said if we need another suffix, we will create MADR to add another KV pair behind &, i.e. hash

kri_<resource-type>_<mesh>_<zone>_<namespace>_<resource-name>&sn=httpport,hash=e3a0069bda479bd1

WDYT?

I'd rather have section be the default with a trailing _ the rest can wait for a future MADR

Signed-off-by: Ilya Lobkov <[email protected]>

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section name to select MeshGateway listener

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feat(api-server): add support for inbound rules in inspect-api #12713

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xds configs, outbound listeners should use the clustername instead of an IP/port combo #12093

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note on not setting stat_prefix/alt_stat_name in the future

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docs(MADR): resource identifier format #12756

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		#### [Issue #12093](https://github.com/kumahq/kuma/issues/12093): xds configs, outbound listeners should use the clustername instead of an IP/port combo

		We name outbounds like `outbound:10.43.205.116:6379` where IP address doesn't give any useful information.

		\| FilterChain \| for external services - `<kuma.io/service>_<mesh>` \| MeshExternalService \| kri_meshexternalservice_mesh-1___es1 \|
		\| Route \| for external services - `outbound:<kuma.io/service>` \| MeshExternalService \| kri_meshexternalservice_mesh-1___es1 \|

		`resource-type` is a lowercased singular resource type, i.e. `meshservice`, `meshtimeout`, etc.
		We use this name in [kumactl](https://github.com/kumahq/kuma/blob/d7ec0a2b1ac19208fb7dd9726309e3cf8cdc5848/pkg/core/resources/apis/meshservice/api/v1alpha1/zz_generated.resource.go#L153).


		#### URL path

		For example `:5681/path-prefix/<identifier>/path-suffix`.

docs(MADR): resource identifier format #12756

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Secrets naming in Envoy

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lobkovilya Feb 20, 2025 • edited Loading

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johncowen commented Feb 17, 2025

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jijiechen commented Feb 26, 2025

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lobkovilya commented Feb 5, 2025 •

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lobkovilya Feb 20, 2025 •

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